Mindcontroll Forum Index » Programs/Programming Development » Linux Distro's Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  Linux Distro's Posted: 10-28-2002 09:15 AM TuMTuM Will code HTML for food! Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 425 Help me! In my quest for eliteness, Ive installed Lindows! I became addicted by it, but its wrong for me to use this, Im sure. The reason I installed it, is because I want to be able to use all the cool stuff linux has to offer, but mainly because of glftpd. Now lindows is not the right candidate for this . Sure I got glftpd running after 15 minutes (Its evil, it didnt work on Mandrake!), but Lindows itself doesnt have much to offer me. Now, what I need is a good linux distro (mmm. maybe freebsd, who knows) that is easy to learn, and supports 90% of the programs out there. It doesnt have to be Red Hat (from what Ive heard thats Satans little brother) or Mandrake, it can be anything, but it has to be easy to setup on a multiboot system and it must support reading from NTFS. So, time for you linux guru's (Pezko, js) to point me into the right direction. What distro would be right for me? Also, give me some pointers on stuff I should do before I start working with it (what kind of filesystems, how big should the swap partition be, etc), and what programs I could use for everyday tasks like IRC and php scripting. Well know, start your rambling! Posted: 10-28-2002 10:04 AM Dawgy Burn your flag. Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 463 er, i heard slackware was ok? I do not know much of this whole linux business Posted: 10-28-2002 03:12 PM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 ok... *thinks about giving long or short answer* *due to extreme boredom the result of thinking is give long answer* Redhat/Mandrak/SuSE I personally hate. One of the reasons for this is RPM. RPM is evil because 2 reasons. 1. It's a big pain in the *** to get things you compile yourself to work. 2. You get stuff optimized for a fucking 386. (Doesn't apply to mandrake/suse...) Another bad thing with redhat/mandrake/suse is that they're bloated as hell. You get 591.56 apps you'll never use, and lots of open ports, and open ports are never good. Debian is supposed to be nice, but I haven't tried it myself. supposed to have uber package management system, and is not as bloated as mandrake/suse/redhat Slackware is probably my favourite of the well-known distros. Very "un-bloated", no rpm, pretty ok package management. Gentoo is the distro I use at the moment. I really like it very much. Uber package managment, compiles everything from source... If you want glftpd, you type "emerge glftpd" and press return The bad thing with gentoo is the install. It's completely manual. You partition hdd, make filesystems, mount stuff, compiles kernel, edit neccesary files... SO you need some knowledge if you want to do it. The good thing is that you learn A LOT this way. And something important: Lilo is evil. Stay away from it. GRUB is uber. (that's just my opinion tho...) I think that sums it up pretty well... Re: Linux Distro's Posted: 10-28-2002 03:40 PM js995 Deletes your posts Joined: 10 Feb 2002 Posts: 226 Nitpicking: Linux is a kernel. A Linux system is actually a GNU/Linux System. Failure to comply will result in RMS killing someone, probably you. (google to work this part out!) Choosing a distro ... Mandrake 8\Redhat 7.2\SUSE 8 I have used all three of these, and they were of little use to me. I learned a bit while installing/using each of them, but not much, and they (especially SUSE) were very slow on this machine (1800XP, 512mb DDR). Of the three, Redhat was the best, and almost came close to being usable (except for the version i used, 7.2 had some very fucked up stuff with compiling things properly) oh yeah, and Redhat doesnt come with NTFS support in the kernel by default. Redhat 8.0 (Psyche) I hear good things about this distro. Odds are, if you download and follow its installer, you'll end up with a useful Linux system with minimal hassle. That should allow you to do development and play around with Linux Debian woody/3.0 This was the next thing I tried, the install process was good, gave me tons of options (i was using a mini-iso with a pre-built base system) I then apt-get'd some stuff and finally apt-get'd KDE. Debian could be good for you, just remember to get an accurate list of sources for apt before you try restarting (i had no fun when the sources list was empty and i needed some packages urgently). Gentoo Linux If you have a fast computer, Gentoo is great. Its install process is reasonably simple (when following the install documentation). It took me about 2-3 hours to get the base system up, then kde took around 8 hours. Everything from source has its advantages, and compile time is the obvious downside. In a way, Debian's package system is better in this respect. Gentoo will teach you a lot about how linux works. Which could be a good thing, it was for me ... Now, for the rest of the post TuMTuM wrote: Also, give me some pointers on stuff I should do before I start working with it (what kind of filesystems, how big should the swap partition be, etc), and what programs I could use for everyday tasks like IRC and php scripting. Well know, start your rambling! Filesystems : ReiserFS (i had fun with XFS, it loses data though) Swap Partition : Your Ram Size * 2 [EDIT] 2-300mb should do [/EDIT] *beaten with a clue-stick* IRC Program : KVirc, Xchat or BitchX PHP Scripting : ? Three Fun Things 1. Code:  rm -Rf /* 2. use su ! if you dont, you'll find out why you should have soon enough. lindows is wrong in thinking users should run as root 3. (doing this many times per day is uber-fun) Code: cd /usr/src/linux make menuconfig make deps && make clean bzImage modules modules_install cp /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/bzImage reboot Post Editing Is 100% Likely Last edited by js995 on 10-28-2002 04:11 PM; edited 1 time in total Re: Re: Linux Distro's Posted: 10-28-2002 03:53 PM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 Ok, since mozilla is acting gay and refuses to show a proper editbox I will not quote properly! Quote: Swap Partition : Your Ram Size * 2 No! no no no and no.. I will not waste 1 gb on a swap partion. That is something that still lives from the time when computes had 4 mb RAM [edit] I think...[/edit] I usually have 2-300 mb swap, and that's enough.... And then some info on paritioning. The first time I recommend an easy setup with one root (/) parition and one swap. Make swap 2-300 mb, and / the rest [edit]Ok, you should have a /boot too, which should not be mounted at runtime... Only gentoo says this tho, all other distros says "wtf, let him destroy his system"![/edit] And the first thing you do when you're done installing is CREATE A USER and use that, and su when you need to do something as root. You'll prolly think "this is annoying, why should I do this?", but if you don't, chances are you'll find out a bad way... I did that. Linux is evil that way, root can do anything. including deleting running programs, which win can't do. IRC client: irssi Filesystem: reiserfs or ext3. Stay away from ext2, it sucks. XFS seemed nice, but some ppl have like js said had problems with data loss. (I've run XFS on a software raid setup for long time tho...) Compile your own kernel... It's worth it Never, never, ever use write support for NTFS. To qoute docs: "This WILL destroy your data". It worked a week for me, then I had to format and reinstall everything. not fun! For PHP scripting I use vi, which is a console app... it's a bit hard to learn, but when you get used to it it owns. Ok, I think that sums it up... (Why did I write a post this long AGAIN?!?!) Re: Re: Re: Linux Distro's Posted: 10-28-2002 04:04 PM js995 Deletes your posts Joined: 10 Feb 2002 Posts: 226 Now i think about it, yeah, my swap is not actually being used, so the default instruction of "Ram * 2" is prolly wrong. (I'll remember that for future ) Root is a very evil thing indeed, you might want to look into sudo also, as that allows even tighter control on root privs than su, and you can always use the cheat command .. sudo /bin/bash remember on some systems, to "su" you have to be in the wheel group. (random fact) write support is marked as DANGEROUS in the kernel config interface, so the fact that it mangles things is pretty well known. Theres no real need for NTFS write if you manage your stuff properly, and thats a much better solution. btw: i use nano, which disqualifies me from the "vi is god" argument ! Re: Re: Linux Distro's Posted: 10-28-2002 04:10 PM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 js995 wrote: 3. (doing this many times per day is uber-fun) Code: cd /usr/src/linux make menuconfig make deps && make clean bzImage modules modules_install cp /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/bzImage reboot Doing that without knowing exactly what you were doing would probably leave you with a system that doesn't boot Another tip: When compiling your own kernel, save the old one. Make a new section in grub/lilo with the new one. Because likely it won't work the first time Posted: 10-29-2002 02:43 AM TuMTuM Will code HTML for food! Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 425 Ha, running as root is one of the things I hate with lindows, but Ive heard most linux distro's dont support running as multiple users at the same time. (I think xandros supports this). I dont need write support to ntfs, I only want to read stuff, like php scripts or mp3's. What is wrong with rpm's? I understand that compiling everything is better, but I am afraid of getting errors that requires me to patch the source, and sometimes I'd rather run something immideatly, without waiting for the compile to complete . How does linux react to changing hardware? I am thinking about changing my motherboard somewhere next week, but Im gonna install WinXP at the same time. Are there any remote administration programs like remotely anywhere, that allow me to control linux from a webpage, even when Im proxy'd to death? What windowsmanager do you prefer? KDE? Anything else? Should I boot in command line modus and switch to the shell from there, and if I would, how would I do such a thing? Ive heard about "vi", but doest it do stuff like give color to your code, cause thats why I use phpedit instead of notepad, it gives me colors! Oh and what about nano? I tried ultraedit (i think) and that added color to my html, so how bout that? Well, posting this now, im gonna have to do some work . Posted: 10-29-2002 05:16 AM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 Ok.. Lots of questions.. and my textarea in mozilla are still fucked *stabs vB repeatedly for not being xhtml 1.0-compliant* Quote: I dont need write support to ntfs, I only want to read stuff, like php scripts or mp3's. In that case there is no problem, just include the support when you compile your kernel Quote: How does linux react to changing hardware? Would probably require a kernel recompile. Unless you already have the support in it, then it would just start properly without any problem (Unless it's something very odd linux doesn't support....) Quote: Are there any remote administration programs like remotely anywhere, that allow me to control linux from a webpage, even when Im proxy'd to death? 1. SSH. 2. Vnc 3. You can connect to X remotely. Quote: What shell do you prefer? KDE? Anything else? It's Windowmanager (WM), not shell... shells are the things you use in console And I use Fluxbox! You could use KDE or gnome 2 if you have a fast comp. Gnome 2 fucked up my comp tho... probably my fault. Try all of them until you find someone you like I think I have 5 WM's installed on my laptop Quote: Ive heard about "vi", but doest it do stuff like give color to your code, vim (Vi IMproved) can do anything! Or anything you might need at least From Syntax highlighting, auto-ident, automatic compile to spell checking and multiple "clipboards"... I'd use gvim on win if it was available... which it isn't.. *stab* BTW, break up your posts in smaller pieces, it's annoying to read lots of text like that OMG! Another uber long post! Posted: 10-29-2002 05:34 AM TuMTuM Will code HTML for food! Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 425 Well, shell.exe (win32) is the graphical user interface in windows, so I tought its called the same in linux, but its obviously a window manager. SSH, VNC, etc. they dont want to work with proxy's. It's because everything gets filtered for http traffic (at least, they do this at school, and they do it at work). Remotely Anywhere however, sets up an http tunnel trough wich everything works again. I dont know if there are any vnc versions with a http tunnel tough. What gvim? Ok, I understand its a text editor, but in what ways is it different from vim? Isnt it true that you can mod all those windowmanagers (read: KDE) so it looks the way you want it? I tried gnome and kde when I had mandrake installed ages ago, but I only saw graphical differences. However, I hate crowded desktops. I enjoy a nice skin if it is simple. I dont understand why people want huge clocks or mediaplayers filling the screen. Oh, and the best browser I pressume would be mozilla? I already use it on windows and I love it (I used the fake remove internet explorer, but strangely enough its still there, just hidden ). I also heard of lynx, thats a text based browser right? So how does that work? What happens if you stumble on a form or anything... Do you have links to stuff like windowmanagers? I already gathered some software Im sure Ill use (intel cpp compiler, win4lin, vmware, etc.), but Im sure there are loads more. Is there anything like SoftIce for linux, so I can set breakpoints and patch code on the fly? This isnt really needed, but I like to have it anyway . How long does the compiling of a kernel take? Is gentoo just a cd with sourcecode and a compiler that compiles everything when installing? Cause if compiling the os takes >10 hours, ill make sure that happens after the hardware upgrade . How do you compile a kernel when running linux itself? Can it replace the kernel while running it? That seems uber. Do you need to restart afterwards? Posted: 10-29-2002 06:20 AM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 Quote: SSH, VNC, etc. they dont want to work with proxy's. You can use both ssh and vnc through a java applet... I think that would work through proxy. Proxies are evil btw... gvim is basically a graphical front end for vim... Quote: Isnt it true that you can mod all those windowmanagers (read: KDE) so it looks the way you want it? Yes. I if you want a non-crowded desktop, take a look at fluxbox... The intel cpp compiler... is that some evil closed source thingie? if it is, use GNU gcc! [edit] I wasn't thinking... [/edit] And for debugging, gdb! Quote: How long does the compiling of a kernel take? Depends on the computer of course... takes less than 5 min on this comp, maybe 12 something on my laptop Quote: Is gentoo just a cd with sourcecode and a compiler that compiles everything when installing? Cause if compiling the os takes >10 hours, ill make sure that happens after the hardware upgrade . If you choose a stage1 gentoo install it will take 4-6 hours if you have a P4 2GHz... But this is not the kernel, it's libraries, compilers and other stuff. Doesn't need recompile when upgrading. Unless you're changing CPU..... Then you could recompile to get a bit better performance, but it's not neccesary. For info on gentoo install, read the install manual on www.gentoo.org Quote: How do you compile a kernel when running linux itself? Can it replace the kernel while running it? That seems uber. Do you need to restart afterwards? You compile kernel, mount /boot, copy kernel to /boot, edit menu.lst to include the new kernel, then reboot, start with the new kernel and hope it boots I think I have to save this thing and make a linux FAQ of it Posted: 10-29-2002 06:26 AM js995 Deletes your posts Joined: 10 Feb 2002 Posts: 226 you can remotely admin a system over http using Webmin, complete HTML interfaace to the systems settings. to compile a kernel when running linux is easy, because you dont interfere with the one that is running already. You then copy the new bzImage to the /boot partition and reboot to activate the new kernel. Gentoo is a CD with the base packages intact. You can download stage1, stage2 or stage3 tarballs to save time (with precompiled stuff in them) so that might be a option. Compiling gentoo didnt take that long on this machine. Software on linux is 99% a case of going to <a href="http://www.freshmeat.net">freshmeat</a> [freshmeat.net] and searching for what you want. There are usually multitudes of them. btw, that intel compiler you have is uber, where did you get ? Lynx works great for browsing HTML. Obviously all the images are gone, but form fields work fine, and most other stuff is ok. Nice for finding some vital info on tty2 when trying to unfuck something On browsers ... well, i use Phoenix on windows personally, and if you dont use Mozilla mail/chat/other things that mozilla includes that arent the browser, then you would probably benefit from using Phoenix too. Its lightning fast, and clean. Posted: 10-29-2002 06:39 AM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 Quote: you can remotely admin a system over http using Webmin, complete HTML interfaace to the systems settings. You can change settings, yes, not control it... I think that was what TumTum meant Quote: btw, that intel compiler you have is uber, where did you get ? Probably from some warez-place! (correct me if I'm wrong ) Go away from lynx as soon as possible, and use links instead... much better! supports frames and stuff Phoenix owns. But refuses to start on my comp because I'm missing some POS library... Posted: 10-29-2002 07:26 AM TuMTuM Will code HTML for food! Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 425 Yeah, I got the intel compiler from some pub or pubstro on an account that I stole from a fxp group . If you want it, contact me on friday when Im back online, im sure I can send it to you. And I think there is Mozilla Light if you dont want all the useless stuff thats in Mozilla. I must admit that I skinned Mozilla to look like Internet Explorer. Shoot me! ATM Im running on a Duron 600 Mhz, cause my Athlon 1 Ghz is back to the shop after it broke. However, I dont think I can use the new Athlon (im getting it this week) on my msi ms6330, cause last time I did, it ran for some months and went broke, and I just dont trust my motherboard anymore. My paycheck is coming in next week, and I still have some money left, so Im going to buy a better motherboard + DDR Ram. Thats why I'd rather wait a week before I start installing Gentoo, cause I dont want to reinstall it a week after its first install, just to get a bit more performance. I will take a look at fluxbox (google, I pressume ), ah found it already. Well, the screenshots are nice, but I havent seen any in the resolution I use (1280 * 1024) so I cant get an accurate idea of how it will look on my system . How customizable is gentoo with the installation? Like, can you make it completely clean, or install a windows manager as well. Can you have it boot in the windows manager, etc. Also, Im not worried about the installation being text only, but I AM afraid of fucking up my partitions, so does it have a GUI, or is it all textbased? (I think I already know the answer ). How come the installation of KDE took you 8 hours? Is it so big to compile, or is it just very customizable? Posted: 10-29-2002 07:43 AM Pezko Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2002 Posts: 186 Quote: Yeah, I got the intel compiler from some pub or pubstro on an account that I stole from a fxp group . If you want it, contact me on friday when Im back online, im sure I can send it to you. That would make it closed source I suppose, and then I can't use it due to my principles The only time you'd need to recompile things (except kernel) for hardware changes is when you change CPU from pentium 2 to pentium 3 or similar... Duron -> Athlon I'm not sure. Gentoo install is intresting You might fuck up partitions, but just take it very easy and double and triple check everything and you should be fine (mke2fs doesn't ask... ) It isn't as terrible as it seems... The tool used for partitioning is more userfriendly than fdisk for dos. It got a menu (!) and stuff And gentoo is probably the definition of a clean GNU/Linux-system... You get a very basic system, then it's up to you to choose what to install. Installing is very easy tho, for example if you want KDE... "emerge kde -p", check that nothing seems odd, then "emerge kde", then waaaaaaaait... KDE is in C++, and requires QT, which is C++ too... C++ takes time to compile, and QT is 12 mb source. takes around 4 hours to compile on my laptop (celeron 400) Linux Distro's  Mindcontroll Forum Index » Programs/Programming Development You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 3   Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum>>>>>>>>>> TALK GOES HERE FlashVideo/AudioWack off juice.Programs/Programming DevelopmentHardwareStuff You've Made!Sigs And Avatars

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